Are fractals ART

[bigH]

I started this thread after this quote - edit Quote



While I'm at it, I love all your fractals you post you know that.. but you know something and I hate to say it.. but this is becoming a fractal site fast!! Seems like everyone is doing them now. Im getting a lil concerned people will just do fractals because they are easy and stop doing regular art work. :( just my opnion and thoughts but I thought ya should know! Maybe I should have just said it somewhere else but hey Im a yote we say what we think while we are thinking it! .. woof! :D

Some of us think fractal are real art . Every one here want to make some thing to show and if it takes some thing like fractal to get them started then I am all for it . Maybe by doing fractal a hidden talent will come forth and they will produce a great work of ART . And making a good fractal is not easy .

I am not picking on you so don't take it that way - I believe a lot of people feel as you do . I like to hear diff. views on what people are thinking .


H :duel:

[Sassenach]

Are Fractals Art? YES!!!! I see a marked increase of flame fractals on this site, and they are all excellent, by the way, but, there are really only a few of us who have been concentrating mainly on the Apo program, for me, mainly cause it's so FUN plus it's a kind of therapy after the rigors of real life LOL!! And there is a google of different flames one can make, out of all I have seen in the past 3 months, noone really comes up with the same one hehe. Everyone does their own thing.. I still see lots of other media out there :-) Just my .02 :heart:

[Engel47]

my 2€ cents - Yes Fractal's ARE art!! I have stopped doing Poser work for a while - it was A) getting expensive and B) no longer relaxing. I lost my "muse". But Apo - being free and being fun is ideal!! I don't have to buy anything to use it, and I gets load of fun from it, and it helps me relax after a frustrating day at work - and I produce, in my humble opinion, some nice work with it. Not everything I produce is "Top Notch" but then I am still learning. :beerchug:

[classylady]

Yes Fractals themselves is art, what the biggest problem appears to be is if XenoDream , Bryce Fractals and yes even Apophysis are true Fractal Programs ,or not. well we all have heard plenty about this subject.

I personally believe Xeno Dream is a fractal programs as long as no holocons, polygons etc not sure of all the technical stuff is but it amounts to objects not being a fractal program and for Apo the talk is this, and why some do not believe apophysis is a fractal program. because it does not use mathematical equations as say UF or FE etc do. Bryce of course is a modeling program which can generate fractals.

Who ! who is right and who is wrong I have no ideal and frankly don't really care much, it is the end results I want to see. I will say this if a fractal is rendered in Bryce it is no longer is a fractal yep I am sure this one will cause some feedback same with XD when using Holly, pollys :) example Dirks or DC work is done.. no way is that a fractal.... modelling yes. as for Bryce to me it is capable of making Fractals as long as no modelling is done its a fractal but when you for example make a fractal in sterlingware and render it and add things to it in Bryce it no longer is a fractal, sterlingware is more then capable of rendering its own fractals. It would be the same as one using poser and final rendering in Vue. Is it a poser or is it a Vue or is it an MM image

OK WAITING FOR THE FALL OUT...... I am sure there will be plenty.....

Just remember 1 thing everyone has a right to their own opinion.....

[classylady]

I know one thing guys when I am waiting to take my sugar level twice a day I relax using Apo it is just a stress reliever for me and with each flame there is new and exciting creations to see.......


BRAVO TO APO !!!! :star_full :star_full

[wile1]

Hey!!! I didn't say they weren't art!! I said it concerned me that people would stop doing regular art as in other forms of art, sketching, painting, poser, bryce, vue, etc. Because the fractals are so easy to do and no matter what you do a couple of tweeks or pulls of a triangle you have a whole new pic thats pretty! Its easy art its well in my opinion unless your someone like classy or sass or arend who do fantastic artwork or twiggy or or well you know what I mean... Its just an easy way out to say I do art when all you are doing is puling a few strings!

I want to see art.. And If you want to get into this discussion or arguement or whatever, IMHO the only true artist are those that can do work by hand and paper! A sketch a drawing an oil painting all done by hand is the most purest form of art! The rest is cheating!! But hey I cheat! But I used to do my own work.. and if I had a scanner I could show you but I don't and besides my old arthritic hands can't do that anymore, typing is a chore.

So don't get down on me its an opinion and Im very concerned that so many people who view this site will look at it as a fractal site. Not an art site. Thats my concern. And yes Good fractals are beautiful art! I love them I do fractals.. albeit not very well, but I try so don't jump on me!! Im stating my opinion and Im in a grumpy mood today so ... *she says with a smile* BUG OFF!! :D

[Robert_S]

Hi,

first I'm very happy that everybody here has the opportunity of saying what he/she has in mind. I think that most of the artists here have their origin in real sketching and painting. I painted my first aquarel-pictures (I mean pictures that I have done for sale) before about 30 years now. In the beginning 90th (of the last century - :bowl: ) I discovered the airbrush first but time after time the computer grows and the programs too so I used more and more Photoshop and Painter to do my stuff.

When I plan a new artwork I do a quick sketch to imagine my ideas - now you can do this kind of blocking values and shapes with a computer too using for example Alias Sketchbook, Photoshop or Painter... Many of the artists have changed their minds about the computer what I can read in german art magazines and on the internet. So, I believe that it has nothing to do with cheating if you use the stunning programs to make what you have in mind. It's importent to make it!

Apophysis is a very, very nice program with thousands of possibilities making astonishing fractals. But you have to order it, have to change forms or colors and so on - you have to decide what the end of the imagination could be... for me its artwork. Looking at a amazing flame I can let my mind flow behind the lines, curves... :gallery: The same happens using XenoDream but you can build up 3 D models if you want and export them as dxf-files into Bryce, Cinema, Max and so on. Many possibilities, many ways to go and this is exactly what I like!

Yesterday I've made a flame with Apophysis 2z and now I think about using this flame with a foto to show my idea behind it - you will see. I played with XenoDream too and I startet a new matte painting using Photoshop. Maybe the next year me and my wife want to move to a bigger house where I can have a little studio beside my computer work place, because I will use my airbrush and maybe my acrylics to have a bigger size making my dreams come true.

Let us all be artists here and let us keep on doing artworks with every kind of instrument we can reach :headbang:

... sorry for my bad english. In german I could explain my thoughts much better but than you would have problems to understand me. ;)

... a shell using Xeno yesterday

http://www.dtp-art.de/assets/images/db_images/db_spiral-shell_1862.jpg

[classylady]

Gorgeous Robert I hope your entering it into the fractal challenge for this month. (Bright Colors)You know with the site I deal with tons of artists most do use photoshop and do a lot of air brush work Frankly I was a bit surprised to see how many artist do there work amazing to me sure I may only know them through the site but I have seen some stunning art work, done by many popular artists. Denton Lund, Josephine Wall, Jim Warren, JonathonBowser,Carlos so many,just to name of few of the artists we have on the site. Art to me is in the eyes of the beholder.You either like the artist style or your simply don't. Me I love it all and enjoy what I can do, I may not be good at it but I try.. I like your idea of a studio that would be the ultimate way for you to go. :love:

[Robert_S]

Thanks Carolyn. I will post a image in the fractal challange, but this one now can't... I've postet it here first and the rules are... you know them.

I love this site too - the comunity is great and most of the artist have a high skill what I like! Sometimes I feel a little sadness because I cannot post feedback or see all this wonderful works. I hope that this site will be open for a long time. The work of the mods is great and when I have more time beside my wishes, I would come back as a mod.

Yeah - the studio would be nice. Nothing comes over creativity...

[Q.R.]

I don't know if you are all aware of it, but fractal generators have been used for many years to treat mental illness and depression. There is something totally soothing about the (pardon the next expression) mindless clicking and creating of pretty fractals. It's no wonder we all enjoy creating them!
Are fractals art? *shrugs*...beats me. I've seen some beautiful art created with fractals, and mother nature is a fractal wonderland. I guess I do see fractals as a form of artistic expression. What I don't see as art are the endless flames that are posted everywhere and touted as art. Many are beautiful, yes, but I just don't see most of them as "art" in the real sense of the word unless they've been used within other things to create an art piece.
As for XD....there are no real fractal forms used in that program. it was developed as a modeling program, not a fractal program. The holons can be used to create fractal forms, but I don't believe they are actual fractals. I do think the XD creations that are not fractal in form shouldn't be posted as fractals, but the ones that are, should be allowed. LOL (big can of worms here) A fractal form is a fractal form regardless of which program you use. It doesn't matter whether that program is specifically a fractal generator. it actually takes more skill to create a fractal when you don't have a specific fractal program, and I applaude those people who do it.
O.k., that's my two cents. "It ain't worth much" but there you go. :lachen001

[Pakar]

Carolyn wrote:
"...some do not believe apophysis is a fractal program. because it does not use mathematical equations ..."

For those that say that an example what Apophysis are:

Variations:

linear V0 (x, y) = (x, y)
sinusoidal V1 (x, y) = (sinx, siny)
spherical V2 (x, y) = (x /r2 , y /r2 )

... all in Apo is Math.

In respect of the Theme it's always the same blah blah blah between the people that don't used or used only from time to time fractal programmes agains the people that used only this programmes.
So what I have to say is let the people, do what they wont, they can and they know, on the programmes that they like.

[tdierikx]

Hmmm...

IMHO - "art" is any form that elicits an emotional response from the viewer... regardless of how that form was created...

There are many forms of art (or media if you prefer to use the "proper" term). With the advernt of computers, we have been given a new media to use - pure and simple...

I think that the time should have passed now where the "purists" can sit on their high horses and declare that any artwork created with a computer is not a valid artform. So too the time when those who prefer to create mixed media or 3d works can do the same over those who choose a fractal application to create their art.

Regardless of the complexity of an application, or the works that it may allow the user to create - the end result, however simplistic it may seem to the viewer, is still a valid work of art...

I choose to work with Apophysis because it allows me to express myself in a graphic form like no other media I have tried to date. I don't do it because it is "easy" - I do it because I like what I create with it... and if other people like my creations too, that is an added bonus... lol!

T.

[classylady]

Thanks Carolyn. I will post a image in the fractal challange, but this one now can't... I've postet it here first and the rules are... you know them.

I love this site too - the comunity is great and most of the artist have a high skill what I like! Sometimes I feel a little sadness because I cannot post feedback or see all this wonderful works. I hope that this site will be open for a long time. The work of the mods is great and when I have more time beside my wishes, I would come back as a mod.

Yeah - the studio would be nice. Nothing comes over creativity...


Hey Robert yes it does say it should be a new creation not posted prior but it also says as long as the image in not in public view and I do believe that the forum would be considered not in public view to me it would be differenct then if it were posted in the gallery.
But that is up to you, whatever you decided I hope you will enter the rest , well you just never know when a new mod maybe needed :) As the site grows :) Thanks for replying :hug:

[classylady]

I don't know if you are all aware of it, but fractal generators have been used for many years to treat mental illness and depression. There is something totally soothing about the (pardon the next expression) mindless clicking and creating of pretty fractals. It's no wonder we all enjoy creating them!
Are fractals art? *shrugs*...beats me. I've seen some beautiful art created with fractals, and mother nature is a fractal wonderland. I guess I do see fractals as a form of artistic expression. What I don't see as art are the endless flames that are posted everywhere and touted as art. Many are beautiful, yes, but I just don't see most of them as "art" in the real sense of the word unless they've been used within other things to create an art piece.
As for XD....there are no real fractal forms used in that program. it was developed as a modeling program, not a fractal program. The holons can be used to create fractal forms, but I don't believe they are actual fractals. I do think the XD creations that are not fractal in form shouldn't be posted as fractals, but the ones that are, should be allowed. LOL (big can of worms here) A fractal form is a fractal form regardless of which program you use. It doesn't matter whether that program is specifically a fractal generator. it actually takes more skill to create a fractal when you don't have a specific fractal program, and I applaude those people who do it.
O.k., that's my two cents. "It ain't worth much" but there you go. :lachen001

I know your correct about XD but like you also said and especially being a smaller site we'll just leave things as they are no need to get people all upset
most XD users are used to posting in Fractals Thanks for the Feedback :hug:

[classylady]

Carolyn wrote:
"...some do not believe apophysis is a fractal program. because it does not use mathematical equations ..."

For those that say that an example what Apophysis are:

Variations:

linear V0 (x, y) = (x, y)
sinusoidal V1 (x, y) = (sinx, siny)
spherical V2 (x, y) = (x /r2 , y /r2 )

... all in Apo is Math.

In respect of the Theme it's always the same blah blah blah between the people that don't used or used only from time to time fractal programmes agains the people that used only this programmes.
So what I have to say is let the people, do what they wont, they can and they know, on the programmes that they like.

Yes I know it but some of the old fractal artists just will never accept Apo well I say this, if a program makes a person happy then by all means continue. :) Thanks for the explanation :hug:

[classylady]

Hmmm...

IMHO - "art" is any form that elicits an emotional response from the viewer... regardless of how that form was created...

There are many forms of art (or media if you prefer to use the "proper" term). With the advernt of computers, we have been given a new media to use - pure and simple...

I think that the time should have passed now where the "purists" can sit on their high horses and declare that any artwork created with a computer is not a valid artform. So too the time when those who prefer to create mixed media or 3d works can do the same over those who choose a fractal application to create their art.

Regardless of the complexity of an application, or the works that it may allow the user to create - the end result, however simplistic it may seem to the viewer, is still a valid work of art...

I choose to work with Apophysis because it allows me to express myself in a graphic form like no other media I have tried to date. I don't do it because it is "easy" - I do it because I like what I create with it... and if other people like my creations too, that is an added bonus... lol!

T.


You know as well as I do and like you said anything done on a computer in many cases not considered fine art. then again Apo and any other program used to create an image and especially if you enjoy it, and it does help many of us to relax so whats the dif. I like Apo and other fractal programs along, with poser and along with Terragen. so it is all what people want to knick pick about. I frankly enjoy all forms of art and your right those that think Apo is easy mmm I'd like to see some masterpieces out of their work on any program. I don't know about anyone else but it took me a long time to come close to a decent Apo totally one thing to produce an excellent piece of art form then just to toss an unworked flame into the gallery and call it art.

Art is in the eyes of the beholder........ and now with that being said I think this thread has lived its life...... so I am closing it, please feel free to start a new thread for now lets called this one closed. :blowkiss: well maybe lol I don't know lets just get on with playing with parameters and creating beautiful fractals and or art work. :chorus:

[tdierikx]

Actually - rather than closing this thread - maybe move it to the Traveler's Pub - and let the rest of the community here have their say about what they think about fractal art...

Or start a new thread in the Pub asking what our esteemed members think is "valid" art or not??

Just a couple of possibilities... lol!

T.

[ppetersen]

:) Gonna stick my tuppence in here. For years the only form of art I used was 'hand' art, painting in both water color and oils. (I hate acrylics) and recently began to use gouche. Sketching was my soothing, relaxing time.

Once paint became so dear I started to use colored pencils, much less expensive but they didn't always get the 'tones' I wanted. Voila... in steps the computer and PSP ... Yes I've used that as my main addition to my art since I began using a computer.

I've used sinedots to make some lovely frames, and see using fractals as more than this. When I see the work that Carolyn, Lou Anne and Nikky have done combining fractals and their poser figures it blows my mind away.

Fractals are as pure an art form as any other program, whether it's hand art, or computer generated. I've seen magnificent works in Bryce and Vue that would take forever to paint, while I've also seen amazing works in Apo and other fractal programs that again would take hours and hours of work doing by hand.

I have to say any art, which causes a person to contemplate on the beauty of the form and light is art. I see art in so much, both here on the internet, at IT and other art sites, it's works that make me look and gasp and oh and ah.

Art is expressing ones self in any medium it wishes. What the eye sees is a pathway to the soul... :)

Which is also why I open Fine Art challenges to any medium... cg or hand art.. :) It's all about the beauty one creates from ones mind and hands...

[classylady]

Thank you Pat that is very well and intelligiently said it sums it all up I wished I could put into the right words what I think and feel some times as everyone knows it just doesn't come out right for me.

But the bottom line is as far as I am concerned Fractal Art is art whether it is done in any program you can find or your favorite fractal program, each person has the right to use whatever program they wish to use that expressed their inter feelings of what they precisive as fractal art. Art as has been said more then once is in the eyes of the beholder. It may not be always the way we would do it on a personal note but it is still art to the person who takes the time to actually create a form of art. Now I'll admit some do make me cringe when I see especially in Apo just some scribbled lines but again that is me doesn't mean the creator intentionally did it that way, it is just what that person see's as art.

I see no need to take this thread any further T. and I would suggest we closed this discussion before this entire thread gets totally blown out of portion, it already seems to have that feeling. Please drop this subject Fractal Art is Art So putting it rather bluntly let it go those of us who do Fractal Art know the answer. No need to drag this on any longer. Every form of art has at one time or another been questioned. The original statement was a concern nothing more..... END OF SUBJECT and DROP IT.

[classylady]

Actually - rather than closing this thread - maybe move it to the Traveler's Pub - and let the rest of the community here have their say about what they think about fractal art...

Or start a new thread in the Pub asking what our esteemed members think is "valid" art or not??

Just a couple of possibilities... lol!

T.

I don't believe it is necessary as far as I am concerned this subject is closed