Important Links to, and Information about Copyright Laws - All Artists, Please read!

[AnnaKirsten]

If you use PSP (any version as far as I know) and you have downloaded a PSP tube from a site that you are unsure of as to its authenticity, you can sometimes find out whether it was an originally made tube, or one that was created from someone else's picture by doing the following...

Hold down the right click button of your mouse and pass the erase tool over the tube. If it isn't a genuine original tube, you should get the original picture appear behind it! This doesn't always work, as it depends on whether it's a background or a layer that you have downloaded, but it's always worth a try!

Obviously if there's a background image, then you will know that the "tube" you've downloaded should only be used if permission from the original artist has been granted! - do not rely on tubes available from sites where they try passing off their responsibilities re copyrights by asking you to get back to them if you make such a discovery!!! This is ilegal practice and liable to legal action being taken against anyone using their artwork without their permission given to you!

[Rozrr]

A great many sites that offer free tubes state that you can use the tubes from their site provided you are not using them for commercial purposes.

I think there is a fine line at the moment and really we should create our own, however as with all digital art it is still in very early stages.

We are all enthralled by what we can do and can easily get carried away to the digital realms of this wonderful creative paradise.

I personally am grateful to find there is a way to check tubes, however if doesn't always work then we had best stick to just showing and not selling when it comes to using tubes.
Roz

[AnnaKirsten]

Hi Roz, I know what you're saying, but seriously, I belong to some sites where there's a whole lot of internet surfing going on at the moment to find out who's using stuff that belongs to artists who definitely do not give permission for their work to be used, particularly in the form of tubes. Some sites have even been closed down because of this kind of fraud - which is actually what it is. We certainly don't want IT to come into question over this kind of thing!

I think that probably the only way to be sure you are on the right side of things is to either not copyright your own picture, or claim it to be yours, when it contains a tube that you're not sure about, or, make sure that you give due credit to the artist who's tube you may use, who must be known to have given permission. This probably means that you need to state, in the case of not knowing, that you have used a tube downloaded from another site that you are not sure about, and that if anyone recognises it, to please let you know, and if it's a copyright no-no, then you would unfortunatley need to remove the picture. (I will check this out, but it's probably best not even to take the risk in the first place.)

If at any time Admin or any of us recognise any tubes anyone uses, and we know that artist has refused permission, the creator of the picture displayed here would be contacted about it, and the picture would be removed by Admin. If I'm honest, a couple of us are not sure about the mermaid you used. She's lovely, although as I said, not defined enough for the excellent picture you've put her in because the process of tubing her has de-focussed her, but.. We think she may belong to a picture created by an artist who doesn't give permission for their work to be used. When these artists don't give permission, it normally includes even for just putting on show, simply because it then means someone else can go on and perpetuate the fraud by pinching it off the newer image. Now I am perfectly sure you didn't do anything like this knowingly, and it may turn out your mermaid is permissible, but we really can't be too careful.

There are some links in this forum to some reputable PSP tube sites, where this problem would not exist.

Sometimes it's a long and hard business trying to discover what that picture and who that artist is etc. etc., but we do need to make sure they don't find us first!

This string wasn't started because of anything you did, by the way, it was because there are several people already here for a long time who are using "dubious" tubes, and suggesting a possible way of discovering if there was an original picture around them before using them. Even if the picture was taken from a magazine, a card or whatever, and then tubed, for example, that is still copyrighted material! OK so it's doubtful that someone will make a huge fuss in that instance, because they could never keep up, but you just never know!

I personally would like to see IT kept free of any contention in this regard, and I'm sure you'd agree? :blowkiss:

[patpawz]

A very good source for copyright graphics/tubes is here. (http://groups.msn.com/CopyrightCorner/2.msnw. ) They have a huge album with graphics that have been identified by artist and another album for graphics they want to identify by artist.

The only way to be sure is to write to the artist and ask for personal permission. Most artists do not allow (TOU) you to use their work with any other artist's work. This is one of the reasons I like the collaboration board because I know at this point I do have the artist permission.

What I think we need here is for some of the artists here that make poser figures is to allow us to use them from time to time. This way we know we will be safe.

Just my two cents worth.

[AnnaKirsten]

Pat, thanks so much for that really useful link, I've just been there and it looks very good. (MSN are realllllly playing up at the moment unfortunately! I haven't been able to reply to anything on the support site I personally run for two days now!)

With a little time, I think we will at some stage be able to upload our own tubes into this site, but right now it's not an available facility. Things will be changing though at some point in the future.

I do agree, it would be really great for the better Poser-users to be willing to share some of their tubes - in fact I'm sure some would! I certainly would, but mine are all nudes, as I can't be buying all the outfits for them, and tend to paint their clothes onto them.

Again, this is something I'll discuss with the mods and Admin and see if there's any way we can do something like this while we wait for the Freebies section and the shop to become properly active. It may be that one or two people with the right sort of facilities on their personal websites would be able to offer a download section if some of our own Poser artists send some free tubes to them to host... I'll see what I can find out!

[patpawz]

Thanks Anna. Even if the Posers are nude that would be a great help. Since I really don't have any type of artistic talent the use of the Poser would help me learn to be more creative in it's use. When I posted Stages, all I used were plugins and filters. It was a challenge for me to come up with some type of creation using it. I loved every minute. I duplicated the poser three times and used a plugin on each one of them at various setting.

Even if someone could post a jpg of a Poser I could tube it and email it to anyone that might want to use it. Just an idea.

[vos]

Hi patpawz,this is also from a collaboration a horse (drawing)here (http://www.innertraveler.com/publicgallery/showphoto.php?photo=15946&cat=594&page=2)

a lady (poser) here (http://www.innertraveler.com/publicgallery/showphoto.php?photo=15758&cat=594&page=3)

a lady (drawing)here (http://www.innertraveler.com/publicgallery/showphoto.php?photo=15678&cat=594&page=4)

you can put your question also in the poser forum,sure they will help you with poser fig.

[AnnaKirsten]

Thanks for those links, Chris.

There's another one for anyone who's interested, and it's already in PNG format so doesn't need tubing!HERE (http://www.innertraveler.com/publicgallery/showphoto.php?photo=21232&cat=594&page=1)

Anyone using these particular ones though, please remember to give credit to the person who produced them, as these are meant for collaboration work.

I am currently having discussions about whether we can make a gallery or other facility available for sharing of free Poser tubes here on IT. May take a little while, but watch this space!

[Rozrr]

Hi Anna, Been doing a bit of research. The mermaid I used is a John William Waterhouse image as I had originally quoted. However whoever had put it on their site as a free tube had been very clever and turned it to face the other direction...The original painting is called simply Mermaid.

I belong to a legal group and have been in touch as to where we stand and the biggest thing I can see is that UK and US copyright laws can be quite different. Up until 1988 in the UK you could take a whole essay for example and change one word to make it your own. However things have moved on since then and are looked at in a more individual aspect. We must if and where possible as you said, display the original artist. If not we must display that it is a free tube etc.

In my searches I found a freeware program which will help to make tubes. Provided you are aware of what you are making them from and their usage to which they will be put then here is the link: http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Multimedia_and_Graphics/Misc__Graphics_Tools/Tube_Ex.html
I havn't tried it yet, when I do I will let you all know what it can do.

I will also post up any further differences between US and UK copyright laws I get from my legal group, I expect there will be a few after the weekend.
Roz X

[patpawz]

Hi patpawz,this is also from a collaboration a horse (drawing)here (http://www.innertraveler.com/publicgallery/showphoto.php?photo=15946&cat=594&page=2)

a lady (poser) here (http://www.innertraveler.com/publicgallery/showphoto.php?photo=15758&cat=594&page=3)

a lady (drawing)here (http://www.innertraveler.com/publicgallery/showphoto.php?photo=15678&cat=594&page=4)

you can put your question also in the poser forum,sure they will help you with poser fig.

WOW! Thank you Vos! I just didn't look around enough. DUH....! This will be great! Can't wait to get started. I'll pop into the poser forum later today and post there also. I really appreciate your help.

Patti

[patpawz]

Thanks for those links, Chris.

There's another one for anyone who's interested, and it's already in PNG format so doesn't need tubing!HERE (http://www.innertraveler.com/publicgallery/showphoto.php?photo=21232&cat=594&page=1)

Anyone using these particular ones though, please remember to give credit to the person who produced them, as these are meant for collaboration work.

I am currently having discussions about whether we can make a gallery or other facility available for sharing of free Poser tubes here on IT. May take a little while, but watch this space!

I really appreciate your help Anna. :dance: The use of the Posers would be such a help. I am very aware of the copyright laws as I belong to a couple groups where we can not use anything except the artists that are on that groups list.

By using the Poser figures here we will not have to worry about any copyright laws being broken. Hence we will not have to have someone constantly checking to see that artist allows the use of their work or if personal permission is needed.

Patti

[AnnaKirsten]

Pat, we still do need to watch out that someone "out there" doesn't then go and re-tube something made from here, put it in their own picture and claim copyright is theirs - to the exclusion of use by anyone else!! This does happen, so just a little warning! We need to always give credit to the original producer of these tubes obtained from here (or anywhere else they are obtained from).

Still looking into it all..... :eyepoppin

[AnnaKirsten]

Hi Anna, Been doing a bit of research. The mermaid I used is a John William Waterhouse image as I had originally quoted. However whoever had put it on their site as a free tube had been very clever and turned it to face the other direction...The original painting is called simply Mermaid.

I belong to a legal group and have been in touch as to where we stand and the biggest thing I can see is that UK and US copyright laws can be quite different. Up until 1988 in the UK you could take a whole essay for example and change one word to make it your own. However things have moved on since then and are looked at in a more individual aspect. We must if and where possible as you said, display the original artist. If not we must display that it is a free tube etc.

In my searches I found a freeware program which will help to make tubes. Provided you are aware of what you are making them from and their usage to which they will be put then here is the link: http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/...ls/Tube_Ex.html
I havn't tried it yet, when I do I will let you all know what it can do.

I will also post up any further differences between US and UK copyright laws I get from my legal group, I expect there will be a few after the weekend.
Roz X

Excellent info! I found the picture - if anyone's interested, HERE (http://www.johnwilliamwaterhouse.com/paintings/painting1391.aspx)!!

I have to be honest and say that I haven't a clue about the copyright rules when it comes to artists who have long-since died - someone does, I believe, have to own the copyright! Sometimes this passes down through the family line over here in the UK. With writings as an example, I believe there's a lapse of claim of copyright of 50 years needed before it becomes free for use by anyone else - again, don't quote me on that, it's only what I've heard!

What does bother me is, why did the tubist turn the mermaid round if it wasn't to try and deceive people into not discovering who the artist was? Wierd!!

There is no mention about copyright on the Waterhouse site (where the picture is to be seen) so who knows, maybe it's OK to use it... Maybe you have access to some legal implications on this kind of thing? This picture is currently held at the Royal Academy of Arts in London and was his Diploma piece for the RA!! Also there's a contact e-mail address for enquiries about usage on the message board there. It is info@johnwilliamwaterhouse.com - sorry I actually don't have the time to go into it all myself just now, but thanks for your info.

I tried the link, but it came up with page cannot be found. I took off all the extra stuff back to the .com, and the actual site didn't seem to show me where I could find free PSP tubes, even though I put in a search.

[Engel47]

You may want to have a look at this site - What is Copyright? (http://www.whatiscopyright.org/) Makes things clear in easy to understand language. Please everyone that is thinking of downloading "free" tubes should read through it especially the paragraph "Free" web graphics and linking images".

[AnnaKirsten]

WOW! Angela, I'll put a link directly to that site in a separate string for all to see! This is a wonderful document, and of course we are not allowed to copy it or print it! The web-page itself is copyrighted! lol!

As you say, it is very succinct and easy to understand!

Thanks for the info. :worship:

[AnnaKirsten]

This is a document written by a Lawyer who knows the law regarding copyright issues! I must ask that anyone who wishes to use anything of anyone else's works read this first! I would also ask that no-one uses tubes or other artwork made available from any other site without ensuring you have the right to do so. You will discover more by reading this very easy to understand document.

Please click HERE (http://www.whatiscopyright.org/) to read it, and note, we do not have permission to reproduce any of it, or to print it out!!!!

Thanks all. This is an issue that cannot be stressed enough! :sherlock:

[Engel47]

You are welcome - glad it helps :)

[bigH]

I have gone through this on other sites - ant anything anyone can do about it unless you have BIG BUCKS and a lot of time .

I know you are trying to make the site safe from copyright thieft but there is no way .

H

[AnnaKirsten]

So does that mean you're not even going to try?

Surely that's the least we can do, and it is an obligation! A legal one, whether we like it or not! Art sites can get closed down for negligence in that area, Henry! And yes, there is a way! It happens!

[Q.R.]

To be really honest here, isn't the art of our art, learning how to create what we need? Isn't it more honest to create our art around our capabilities than to rely on the creations of others? I collected a few tubes a while ago, but after thinking about it, I realized that "my art" wasn't mine at all if I used them, even if they were created and given freely. I have since deleted all tubes aaaand/or brushes gotten online, and now only use things I have made myself, either in one of my assorted programs, or my own photos. It does limit what I can do,(and takes much more time) but it is much more satisfying to know that what I create is completely original.

[Engel47]

To be really honest here, isn't the art of our art, learning how to create what we need? Isn't it more honest to create our art around our capabilities than to rely on the creations of others? I collected a few tubes a while ago, but after thinking about it, I realized that "my art" wasn't mine at all if I used them, even if they were created and given freely. I have since deleted all tubes aaaand/or brushes gotten online, and now only use things I have made myself, either in one of my assorted programs, or my own photos. It does limit what I can do,(and takes much more time) but it is much more satisfying to know that what I create is completely original.
Good for you - 100% guaranteed all your own work http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_13_6.gif

[AnnaKirsten]

Q.R. I second that, it's a great attitude and the way I feel also concerning my own work.

At the same time, people who are able to make excellent settings and scenes sometimes really can't make what they want to make to produce the picture they want to, and so where some good tubes are available, and they are free of copyright problems, then these can be used in a very tasteful manner to finish the creation. This doesn't detract from the final artistic product, I feel, and I have to admit that when I bought Poser 5 in order to make my own people tubes, it took me many months and endless enquiries of others, before I could begin to produce something looking remotely like a tubeable image from it, because it's not a user-friendly program and I never really got beyond the ability to use it for the (literally) bare essentials!! lol! I nearly gave up on it, feeling it was too scientific for a bear with little brain!

So both are fine, just so long as the copyright thing is not breached in any way.

[Q.R.]

Just for the record, I'm not against using tubes, etc. created by others as long as they are original to the one who makes them and not cannabalized from someone else's work. It's just easier for me to side-step the problem by not using them. It also forces me to think outside the box when I create something.

[Robin]

If you use PSP (any version as far as I know) and you have downloaded a PSP tube from a site that you are unsure of as to its authenticity, you can sometimes find out whether it was an originally made tube, or one that was created from someone else's picture by doing the following...

Hold down the right click button of your mouse and pass the erase tool over the tube. If it isn't a genuine original tube, you should get the original picture appear behind it! This doesn't always work, as it depends on whether it's a background or a layer that you have downloaded, but it's always worth a try!

Obviously if there's a background image, then you will know that the "tube" you've downloaded should only be used if permission from the original artist has been granted! - do not rely on tubes available from sites where they try passing off their responsibilities re copyrights by asking you to get back to them if you make such a discovery!!! This is ilegal practice and liable to legal action being taken against anyone using their artwork without their permission given to you!

Thanks, Nicky...had no idea about this method..will use it everytime I get a tube..thkx again...

[AnnaKirsten]

There has been a lot of discussion about the use of tubes off the net, and so-called freebies, which very often turn out not to be free for use at all. I am therefore putting below a notice, which please, if you would be good enough to abide by, I would be most grateful, as I am spending a lot of time at the moment following up other people's PM's to me, citing stuff that they recognise as copyright no-no's! This is very time-consuming, and sometimes it doesn't lead anywhere, but the reality is we do need to be far more vigilant in what we are doing..

"If you don't know where you got your tube/object from and cannot prove it is free of copyright restrictions, please don't use it! Any image with tubes/objects used that cannot be authenticated will be removed at the discretion of Admin and moderators, as it is the individual artist's personal responsibility to ensure he/she is not using material that is under copyright restriction before incorporating it in their work.

Please go to THIS LINK (http://www.whatiscopyright.org/) to read about your personal and legal obligations in this respect. Please also read the IT TOS (http://www.innertraveler.com/SellArt/TermsOfService.htm)."

Here is the specific section from the TOS here at IT pertaining to Copyright issues..

I. COPYRIGHT
It is Innertraveler's policy to protect the copyright of all members posting material to this site. Any material posted to Innertraveler remains the property of the poster, and they retain all copyrights. By posting to Innertraveler, the poster warrants that they are the copyright holder, or have permission or license to redistribute the material. No further distribution is allowed without the express consent of the poster.
If at any time the copyright of a posting is called into question, the poster will be notified of the challenge. If this challenge is made by the original creator of the material, it will be removed as quickly as is reasonably possible. If made by a third party, the poster will be given 48 hours to assert their right to post the material. If no response is received within 48 hours, the posting will be removed from the site until such time as the poster provides sufficient evidence that they have been granted rights to reproduce the material in question. Repeated posting of material that infringes on someone else's copyright may result in termination of membership at Innertraveler... You can also obtain further information about copyrights at http://www.copyright.gov/faq.html

I'm so sorry to find the need to give this notice out here, but the time seems to have come when it just seems to be a necessity. I do hope everyone will understand - and yes, I know how disappointing it can be to have to stop using all those tubes we've collected over the years "just in case" - I have had to do just that!

[AnnaKirsten]

This isn't foolproof by any means, so do beware..

[Robin]

It has been brought to my attention that some of the tubes I have used are not "free" as advertised..and actually should not have been used!. Every tube that I have obtained I have gotten from either 'free psp tube sites' or from friends. I now find out that many of these 'free' sites actually are not supposed to be using these tubes..and that many of them are copyright by the creators..and they have been 'pirated' to these sites. As a result, I have voluntarily deleted any images that I have created with any tube that is in question. and I am deleting tubes that I have obtained in this manner over the past year or so from my harddrive. I now know how to make my own tubes and will concentrate on only using tubes that I have created or tubes that I know without a doubt are okay to use. DO NOT THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE A SITE SAYS THE TUBE IS FREE...THAT IT IS! I hope that all of you really become aware of this problem..I had no idea the extent of this until recently...why...I thought everyone on the web was honest...lol!!! boy..could have fooled me! anyway...thought you all should know this..
take care...and learn to make your own tubes..its not hard once you get the rules down..and then you never have to worry about the art you create.
thanks to all of you for your past comments and views of my posted work. i always appreciate it..cya!!
Robin
I

[Engel47]

It has been brought to my attention that some of the tubes I have used are not "free" as advertised..and actually should not have been used!. Every tube that I have obtained I have gotten from either 'free psp tube sites' or from friends. I now find out that many of these 'free' sites actually are not supposed to be using these tubes..and that many of them are copyright by the creators..and they have been 'pirated' to these sites. As a result, I have voluntarily deleted any images that I have created with any tube that is in question. and I am deleting tubes that I have obtained in this manner over the past year or so from my harddrive. I now know how to make my own tubes and will concentrate on only using tubes that I have created or tubes that I know without a doubt are okay to use. DO NOT THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE A SITE SAYS THE TUBE IS FREE...THAT IT IS! I hope that all of you really become aware of this problem..I had no idea the extent of this until recently...why...I thought everyone on the web was honest...lol!!! boy..could have fooled me! anyway...thought you all should know this..
take care...and learn to make your own tubes..its not hard once you get the rules down..and then you never have to worry about the art you create.
thanks to all of you for your past comments and views of my posted work. i always appreciate it..cya!!
Robin
I
Robin - you are quite right - a lot of the so called "free" tube sites are in fact using other peoples art work to make their tubes, and not doing the original artist the courtesy of asking first - I am sorry that you had to find out the hard way, and very sorry to hear that you have been deleting some of your images due to this!

Making your own tubes is the only 100% sure way of knowing that you are not using anyone else's hard work and you get the satisfaction of knowing that you did it all :work:

[AnnaKirsten]

Do you know, I had to the very same thing a while back - delete all of my so-called "free tubes" off my harddrive unless I knew they were totally free for any sort of use! It was soul-destroying, but the only thing to do in the end, as the temptation to use some of them was enormous!

This started for me when I belonged to a top MSN signature-making site and one day went in there to find almost my entire gallery wiped clean, because I had unwittingly been using artwork that was not allowed!!! Can you imagine how devastating that felt? Well it was at that time that I decided I was just going to make my own stuff and concentrate solely on producing all my own work.

I too, learnt how to make my own by starting with making the things I wanted inside Poser, saving them in png format, and then tubing them inside PSP. There's so much satisfaction derived from knowing everything you have produced is your own work! lol!

Note: There are also some plans afoot (don't know how long it will take) for some of us to make tubes for general use here. Some of us are busy working this out, and where they will be hosted from. So all is not entirely lost! Maybe some people will need to just hang on in there, or ensure they do obtain tubes in the meantime from sites that are mentioned in this forum.

When (if) I get time, I'll open up a string comprised solely of such links so that they are all together... Don't hold your breath, I'll do it when I can.

Thanks Robin, for what you're doing and the example you're setting for us all. http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/thumbs-up.gif

[classylady]

Spring Faerie Collection
Poser Artist Dennis Reed
http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=DennisReed
http://www.besdesigntreasures.com/tubes/hosted/dr/

Does allow usage with link back only
================================
Outlawbydesign Graphic's
http://www.outlawbydesign.com/
Memberships are available
but there is a free section they can be used with link back only
==============================
Graphics ©Pixelsbyjudy
http://pixelsbyjudy.com/
*Memberships are Available*
she also has a free section again with link back only
On all three listed ask permission for usage.

In the mean time those of us that do make poser images will get together to see if we can not get some together for all to use

Ron and mine will be with link back probably
I believe Anna will be doing some also, so any poser people out there come help out.

This may help everyone out .....at least Anna is hoping it will
Hopefully we can have some together by next weekend if I can fine mine lol

In the meantime make your own via poser or whatever program you use.
It is the only way to be safe.

Anna let me know what type you want? K

[AnnaKirsten]

Hi Carolyn, thanks for this offer, it's a great idea and very generous of you.

I have downloaded some mermaid/merman conforming morphs and also some birds from DAZ, so I'll get to making some of those, plus prepare some tubes of characters that I already have in png format, but these will have to be nude as I always paint the clothing - but they may suit people who want to do the same and not use people tubes without the merchandised clothing on them.

So if you're happy to do men tubes and women tubes in various positions already clothed, and I imagine too, that if you're able to provide any animal tubes, these would be greatly appreciated. This way, perhaps we can get a few things sorted by the weekend, and then we can decide on where we upload to and then enable dowload links to them from the Freebies Section.

I note too, that when the shop is finally open, there will be the facility to sell stuff like this there too - it's not just for art (which is being chosen), but by all accounts, it does look as though some merchandise could be sold from there direct in the specified formats. (Obviously that will have to be cleared before we finally know about this, and 30% of the sale price goes back into IT for its upkeep and continued improvement schedules.)

I know that at this particular time though, artists here at IT are particularly looking for freebies that don't have restrictions, other than to give credit where credit is required by acknowledging © owners. You and I can discuss all that via pm later on in the week, or when we both have something we can start to offer, if you're happy with that?

I'd like to think that eventually, we could have a facility whereby people can request specific things and there would be a team of us able to make them, but I think that's a lot further down the line just now. Meanwhile, I do know that in Bryce forum, for example, there are some people producing objects for that program for people to use, so it's all beginning to happen here at IT!! :bounce:

OMGosh am I going to be able to produce any art for some time??? lol!! :confused:

[classylady]

You after last night and posing and reposing I was beginning to want to scream lol...na seriously luckily I do have most already done.

I have all the birds as well, parrotts to the song birds, not remix song bird
course already have the penquins I used in yesterdays post momma seperate, baby seperate and both together.

I think we should recuit Shadowwalker for Dragon's ?? We have the horse, unicorn ,course cat, dog, tiger, lion etc. bear. Let's just say this there isn't much we don't have lol.........Could anyone use a tube of the milbaby3 just out. one does have angel wings just haven't worked with it yet. like i said most I already have tubes for

How about also saving them in tube, psp and psd form so those that only have Photoshop can use them????? It isn't hard to do only takes a few seconds. to resave.. what it will do is limit what size each zip is. In otherwards okay say the penquins and all there different poses just those in the 3 forms in one zip. Right?? Say you have 6 poses 6x3characters 18 to whatever if say in this case I add Momma and baby together in different poses.I think it would be better if possible to keep them in their own zip file. I may have to get an account at that site yet lol.....yes there will be a read me in each zip. I always put one in my starter flame sets. Stardard stuff no uploading in these forms for others to download without specific permission and link back to the site on poser tubes, credit given on useage .. poser only I don't mess with that with fractals.

Anyway yes we can talk about this more iron out some of the hitchs or glitches we may run into.

[AnnaKirsten]

Sounding great - and I agree we need someone like Shadowalker for his dragons if he's willing - saves us having to do too much!

Yes, my intention is to make tubes available in both PSD and PSP formats, so that's no problem either. I also will be including the readme file for link-backs and copyrights. Can't afford to allow indiscriminate use when the work originates with me or you or whoever, because we also make use of them!! I believe it's ok to have the links to freebies showing according to TOS? It's the paid-for stuff that we're not supposed to give links for isn't it?

Any extra finances involved, let me know by PM, ok? We'll talk about that...

OK I have a couple of things to upload, so I'll do that, then I'm off for tonight. :beerchug:

[wile1]

You know generally if it calls for a link back or if it says anything like please mention my site or link then its not really free for use. Unless you want to give credit. You have to be very very careful about where you get tubes. Its probably a lot easier just to go to your poser and do a png file of a horse or a figure or something and save it as a tube in your psp or a png file so you can use it again later.

I still think that if anyone wants some poser figures like say some animals etc. Most of us here that use poser would be glad to just render one for you if you need one. Just ask!

[classylady]

I save mine in tiff form then in psp use select alpha channel and they come out perfect.

We'll see how these first ones go, if you would like to share some LouAnn please help us out.

Nothing written in a read me file most likely won't be much good it just gives an added suggestion to do the right thing. Nothing more. Yet I would feel badly if someone actually was caught at it.


If you want to help jump in, if not Nicky and us will continue on.

[judee3d]

I so rarely use tubes that I don't feel personally concerned about this, but I do think it's great information to have - and I did download a bunch of free tubes after buying PSP 10 - some from the Corel website, but some from elsewhere. They aren't even installed, lol - so I think I'll go through them and just delete those that are not from the official site.

And just a question - does the same rule apply to brushes? Again, I haven't really installed any, but I have a bunch of zip files with brushes I've picked up here and there.

One thing kinda, well, er, can one say dumb? Some of the tubes from sites that require a link back, don't even have a readme in them - so amongst all these tubes I've collected, how am I to remember who did what? *sigh*

Better off without them, or with tubes collected from friends.

Carolyn, it is so nice of you to do what you are doing! Actually, it sounds like it would be fun to make tubes. Well, sorta. lol! Probably more work than fun!

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone could just, well, share? I've never been "possessive" of my art. While I don't particularly want someone coming to my site and taking my work and calling it their own, I don't mind if someone wants to use something I made - and if they want to leave a credit, fine, if not, that's fine too.

I figure if someone actually claims that they made something that they actually did not make, they are only hurting their Self. That's Self with a capital "S" - their self esteem, their sense of self worth, etc. They know deep down it's not theirs, so pretending it is, to me, is more of a punishment than I could ever give. In the long run, they will realize that any praise or comments they get from friends is not for their own work. Maybe I'm odd, but I wouldn't want to live with that for long.

Of course, kids, young teens, etc, will do lots for recognition - eventually most of them grow out of it. And in a lot of cases they don't even realize that what they are doing is "wrong" - finding a cool image somewhere, making a sig or an av out of it, way cool, yeah - no thought of property rights or anything like that - no bother to read TOS -what's TOS anyway? In a way, they are innocent, not meaning harm. And it's not just kids either - when I first started getting into CG I had no idea about TOS or property rights or whatever. I collected images from all over - didn't do anything with them, was going to show them off once I had a website up - I only happened across a discussion about TOS, etc, and then realized I didn't even have the names of the people whose images I had collected. And hey, I am far from being a kid...

So I never jump to conclusions. The only thing I won't tolerate is bandwidth theft - and even then, it can be innocent. A lot of people use smileys where they can link directly to the image - for free. Why not other stuff? When you are new to all this, you can make a lot of mistakes - which is why I hate it when people are labeled as a thief, because in truth, theymay be innocent. And again, those that knowingly steal, they are hurting themselves more than me!


Anyway, I've babbled enough on the topic. :blahblah:

[AnnaKirsten]

You know generally if it calls for a link back or if it says anything like please mention my site or link then its not really free for use. Unless you want to give credit. You have to be very very careful about where you get tubes. Its probably a lot easier just to go to your poser and do a png file of a horse or a figure or something and save it as a tube in your psp or a png file so you can use it again later.

I still think that if anyone wants some poser figures like say some animals etc. Most of us here that use poser would be glad to just render one for you if you need one. Just ask!

Firstly, yes, these are free for use! Permission is given for their use! There are no copyright binders on such tubes being used by others. The idea of the statement in the readme is to establish the original copyright holder because the original artist may be using the very same tubes for work that they may sell, and it's therefore important that their rights to that copyright is established!

Secondly, people don't usually bother to do the linking back, or even to say who's tube they've used, and asking them to do so is really a means of establishing that such a tube is not their own to redistribute or to claim as their work. However, if they were to go on and make an image that they then sell, stating this is entirely their own work, there is a legal comeback on them for doing so, established by the original copyright-holder having provided the readme with the tube.

Thirdly, it's common courtesy (very highly abused) to simply do as the original maker of the tube being used has asked of them!

Personally I have no problem with making something to order (if I'm capable of it, which is dubious in some instances), but I'd still like the right to use what I've made without someone else making out that what I've provided is theirs to use in the first instance, i.e. they "made it" and it's their copyright.

I hope anyone with these doubts is beginning to see the point we're making here? It's not an unwillingness to give anything away, but it is a matter of the copyright-holder having free right to use what they've made in their own work and to be able to use it commercially if they wish, without dispute as to its ownership. This applies whether or not the other users of the tubes wish to use common courtesy or not!!!! The fact is that the readme file establishes who's copyright this is. There's electronic data on one's own computer/backup system as to the date, time, file-type etc. etc. that can be linked with such readme file, and anyone else making a readme file to "replace" it trying to say such tube belongs to them, would in the event of a dispute, not have a leg to stand on, as the electronic data on the replacement readme file will be later than the original.

We're simply protecting our own backs, that's all! Even if people don't give credit, the fact is established in any case from whence such tubes originate, and awareness of this fact is established in the readme file. :headbang:

No, we're not out to have our ego's inflated by doing this!!! People deliberately steal stuff in order to inflate their wallets!

Finally, we do hope to be in a position once we've established a holding site and means of download etc., to have a team of Poser-users who would be willing to make tubes to order. At this point in time it's too soon to make a promise that this could be fulfilled.

If you are happy to make stuff for people, then please do it in any case. No problems there at all as far as I'm concerned, it would be very kind of you to do so.

[AnnaKirsten]

I so rarely use tubes that I don't feel personally concerned about this, but I do think it's great information to have - and I did download a bunch of free tubes after buying PSP 10 - some from the Corel website, but some from elsewhere. They aren't even installed, lol - so I think I'll go through them and just delete those that are not from the official site.

And just a question - does the same rule apply to brushes? Again, I haven't really installed any, but I have a bunch of zip files with brushes I've picked up here and there.

One thing kinda, well, er, can one say dumb? Some of the tubes from sites that require a link back, don't even have a readme in them - so amongst all these tubes I've collected, how am I to remember who did what? *sigh*

Better off without them, or with tubes collected from friends.

Tubes made by the official Corel (or previously Jasc) websites are fine, obviously. Anything else, including from friends, needs to be checked out of course. I know loads of them don't have readme files, and this is often because tubes were made fraudulently, yet offered as free tubes without ever giving due credit. The only safe tubes to use are really those that are either made by yourself, or that have come from a site that specifically makes original tubes, stating this is the case, and giving the copyright as legally being theirs - such as those found at www.freepsptubes.com - and that are in pristine condition, in other words, not someone's artwork that's been made into a tube, which is often badly done in any case, with tell-tale outlines and so on.

With regards brushes, yes the same copyright laws pertain to them also I'm afraid. This is, I believe, all covered in THIS LINK (http://www.whatiscopyright.org/). Hope this helps...

I think your idea of deleting the tubes not obtained from the official Corel site is probably the safest one, unless as I said above, the site itself declares the tubes to have been made by its owner, with all the jargon that goes with that.

[classylady]

Hope to have some up by the weekend only problem right now is time. with challenges closing.

Hoping to get some zipped tonight.

Thanks judee besides i see plenty of your work in free sections. :)
only fair to do the same but only for members here.

[wile1]

Nikki Im basing this on what I know from doing work for 3D sites. I belong to a few of them and basically anything that comes from another site that says please link back is considered non usuable in your work. Because its not classified as free. Now there are sites that dont say that and things can be used. A lot of folks use them. But to protect the site basically everything you do should be your work. This site however is a little different. So I'm not sure just what the laws would be. Anyway where you uploading your png's to?

And Carolyn a png is same as a tiff, you can still use alpha channel on it. I do in psp6 just load from alpha channel. But in PS7 its just the png with transparent bg anywya.

[classylady]

Thanks I'll have to try that way..... Just got into the habit of always saving them as tiff's instead of png's I'll try one later today....:blowkiss:

[AnnaKirsten]

For what it's worth, I do it the png way! lol! You should see me!!!! http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/hush.gif

Unless otherwise requested, I shall be tubing my stuff and making them available in both PSD and PSP format.

[wile1]

Again.. where do ya put this stuff you are doing? in freebies? I'd be more than happy to make tubes if people want them or don't want them I'd still make some :D

[classylady]

For what it's worth, I do it the png way! lol! You should see me!!!! http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/hush.gif

Unless otherwise requested, I shall be tubing my stuff and making them available in both PSD and PSP format.

Okay so stay with PSD and PSP only right??

No problem easy to do.

[classylady]

Again.. where do ya put this stuff you are doing? in freebies? I'd be more than happy to make tubes if people want them or don't want them I'd still make some :D


I believe we're uploading to our own servers and posting them in the free section plus a link in possibly in this forum and possibly in one of the main forums.

At Least that is what I plan to do.
Even if we duplicate an item I don't think that is going to hurt may even help others, to have more choices.


I dunno what do you think Nicky this is your project......
I'm for all the help we can get:dance:

[judee3d]

I think this is a great idea - and keeping it to psd and psp files makes it more accessable to all.

I can't make any promises cause I'm too busy at the moment, but maybe after my taxes are done, lol - might be fun to participate!

[AnnaKirsten]

Okay so stay with PSD and PSP only right??
No problem easy to do.

That was the point of course, I save from Poser as png then make them into tubes.

Again.. where do ya put this stuff you are doing? in freebies? I'd be more than happy to make tubes if people want them or don't want them I'd still make some

As CL said, we have to upload them to our personal sites, then go into the Freebies section on IT and make them available with links directly to the tubes on our sites. It would be wonderful if you are able to produce some tubes too - the more the merrier and more variety too!
___________

At the moment I still have to get established with a personal site I can host my tubes on! Mine may take a little longer, therefore, before they're ready for people to download and use. Free sites are generally far too small for this sort of stuff, so I don't know at the moment what will be happening for hosting mine. I have joined Poserhome, but they haven't made the facility for personal websites available yet! This is of course a repository for free tubes for non-commercial use. I'm wanting to make mine available just for IT users, not for the world itself...

[wile1]

Okay guys will see what I can do. I don't have a lot of room on my site but I can host a couple zip files. Im not to good with pswhatever files etc. But I can do tubes.

[classylady]

Okay guys will see what I can do. I don't have a lot of room on my site but I can host a couple zip files. Im not to good with pswhatever files etc. But I can do tubes.


LouAnn in psp when you save as it gives you the choices try it see what you think. Thanks for the help.

[classylady]

I'm wanting to make mine available just for IT users, not for the world itself...by Anna

I feel the same way just for IT users only not the whole world.:blowkiss:

[ppetersen]

For brushes if you all would like I can bundle up some of my original pictures and stuff for you all to use if you want :) I usually don't save them but it's easy enough for me to do....

The only thing is that the PSP 9 brushes work usually in only that or higher... Not sure if they will work in the lower ones...

But can also save as a tube and you all can convert :)

let me know and who to send to to host it..

(just saying you used mine would be good- no link back necessary :)

[classylady]

OH thank you Pat, I think anything you can help out with will be plus

make them however you think will work for the majority. if you can try psd's I think that way everyone can use them.

Thanks for the help Pat.

[bigH]

Guess if we don't do psp and psd formats we out of luck - O well .

H

[judee3d]

Guess if we don't do psp and psd formats we out of luck - O well .

H

BigH, what program do you have, and what formats does it use?

[AnnaKirsten]

For brushes if you all would like I can bundle up some of my original pictures and stuff for you all to use if you want I usually don't save them but it's easy enough for me to do....

The only thing is that the PSP 9 brushes work usually in only that or higher... Not sure if they will work in the lower ones...

But can also save as a tube and you all can convert

let me know and who to send to to host it..

(just saying you used mine would be good- no link back necessary

That'd be great, probably as Carolyn says, in PSD format rather than saved as brushes, then anyone with PSP8 or higher can convert them. Anyone with PSP 7 downwards, well ask, and one of us can convert them accordingly.

Poserhome has just opened up a whole section for us to be able to upload things like this for linking to from our download area - go to the PSP/PSD tubes area for that. You get 50MB space and more if you ask! Obviously they have to be in .zip format for the download to happen.

I hope after all this hard work, people will use these tubes! lol! It's a time-consuming task to prepare them!

Guess if we don't do psp and psd formats we out of luck - O well . H

Is PNG any good for you? Some of them at least could be made for you in that format.. Best thing to do is ask whoever provides the tubes that you like, and I'm sure they will oblige! I can certainly do that with mine, but do you really want mermaids? (Maybe you do! lol!) That's all I'm making right now! I'm surprised though if you can't use PSD? Don't you use GIMP? That takes PSD..

[bigH]

I be wrong - I be dummy - sorry :cries:

I can use any - thinking about wrong program .

:heart: to all !

Henry

[ppetersen]

Carolyn, :) gonna ask, .... what's a psd????? Does PSP do those LOL.... My only program besides terragen, and apophysis is Paint Shop Pro and I know they make .tiff but not sure if a brush would or a tube would go to that would it... LOL...

[AnnaKirsten]

what's a psd????? Does PSP do those LOL.... My only program besides terragen, and apophysis is Paint Shop Pro and I know they make .tiff but not sure if a brush would or a tube would go to that would it... LOL..

I know this was addressed to Carolyn, but I don't think she's seen it, so I'll answer on her behalf for now.

If you're using PSP8 or higher, you can definitely save in PSD format - it's the Photoshop equivalent transparent layer of PSP transparent layers (in the drop down list for save as, look for Photoshop, and you'll see psd). So if you're able to convert your brushes into PSP format, and you have PSP8 or higher, yes you should also be able to save as PSD at the same time. (I'm not sure whether the lower versions of PSP can do this, but if you do have probs, just shout and I or someone else could to that bit for you.) Which reminds me, we do need to ensure when we save PSP files that we go into options and save them as PSP5 files so that they are compatible with all programs...

[ppetersen]

yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh got it... save in PSd and thats in the drop down :) btw, I can also host files from my site for download. Not my main site, but I have another site that I use to hotlink to ... I pay for both but its worth it for me.

I can save as a zip file for anyone that wants. I'll probably spend time tomorrow working on those tubes.

I just did some atmo files for Terragen for someone and that's how I found out my site allows uploading those files... :) happy camper today...

[AnnaKirsten]

Pat, that's wonderful news! Looking forward to seeing what you offer - we should get a good variety this way!

I'm still struggling to get the hosting site admin to co-operate with me on how to get my zip files uploaded there with the proper connections and so they actually work! They control everything so I can't edit or delete something if it's wrong - most frustrating! Anyway, as soon as I can, I'll get some mermaids up for the taking (that's what I'm currently working on anyway!) and once I know they're up properly on that other site, then I can give a link to them from our Freebies section. I hope!!!! (Very new to all of this!)

[classylady]

What I was tossing around since I already have over 100 megs worth was to just likst a thumb in here or wherever and just simply say Ihave say example 6 other poses and then let them tell us what they want.......

Props the same if not we'll go ahead and make them available at our site.

but I was thinking if say someone could not receive my e-mail then we can do what I suggested Nicky via message a few minutes ago.....

I just think there is no way we'll be able to upload them all here. I'm not even close to 1/4 of the way done.

Thanks Pat your help is greatly appreciated.

[classylady]

Also Ron just said possibly we'll be able to use our accounts at comcast also which then would give us an additional 4 gigs. he's checking it out if so Nicky that would solve some of the problems.

[AnnaKirsten]

Looking good Carolyn, and maybe at some stage it would be good for all our tubes to come from one place (it may even happen that there will be a repository in IT itself at some stage, who knows!)

Meanwhile, I have finally managed to upload my first two offerings of mermaids, see THIS STRING (http://www.innertraveler.com/messagecenter/showthread.php?t=1814) so these are available for download from our Freebies section.

I'm doing it this way for now because I don't anticipate having that many tubes to give away - it's far too time-consuming for me to prepare them etc. really, and I think with what others have to offer as well, there should be enough for people to enjoy in their creations once they're all up and running. (Remember I am a relative new-comer to Poser, whilst others have been using it for years and have accumulated stuff on the way!)

So.. I'd appreciate it if any new stuff made available is just mentioned in the string referred to above. Hope that's ok?

[classylady]

Okay no problem as soon as we can get some of these together, frankly last night I just got so discouraged with this whole thing I just didn't work on any more..... Ron did though so thats okay we can not be spending all our time doing just that...

We will be posting them to our site but will not be for public use only IT members.....
also not posted in the freebie section a link in here yes but that is all......

we have way to many to post for them to go in the free section maybe a few but that is going to be it.

and when we get the time.. It will also depend on how many hits we get if we get none, they come down, however each ip address from where people come from better be from IT otherwise the entire section will come down.

Sorry just not happy with this entire situation at this point.


Right now frankly I'm not doing anymore then I already have or have done.

[judee3d]

Sounds like you're tired, Carolyn :hug: Don't worry about it - take a break and do something else - this is all supposed to be fun, not work.

Yes, doing tubes is work, no denying that, but those that are doing them do hope to get a certain pleasure in knowing others are using them and enjoying them - but there is a point where the pleasure of making them gets far surpassed by the work, and IMHO I don't think that point should be crossed - by any of you.

So when you reach that point, just set it aside and go do something you enjoy doing. Maybe you'll feel like coming back to this, maybe not.

This was a great idea, but there is no reason any of you should have to do more than you are comfortable with. And there is No Hurry!! I think sometimes we get caught up in a new project and end up overdoing, and that's not the intent at all. Soo... to each of you... Take it easy and work on it when you feel inspired to do so, and if not, go do something else.

It's as simple as that. :love:

:hug:

[AnnaKirsten]

Carolyn, I totally do understand where you're coming from on all this, so do take your time and when you have some ready, just post the link in the string I created, ok?

Judee is so very right in what she says. Nothing should get us down like things do at times, and if it begins to, it's really time to say "bye bye to that baby" for a time until inspiration and the desire hits you again, lol. Easier said than done though, I know, especially when on finally uploading something for a link, the links in the hosting site don't actually turn out right, and then as in my case, I ended up in dialoguing back and forth with that site owner trying to sort it all out - very time-consuming just doing that! (I've noticed that some website owners have little time for what appear to them to be "dumbos" either!)

So as things stand right now, we have two options; one to advertise our freebies with their links in the Freebies section; the other, to put the links to our freebies in the new string HERE (http://www.innertraveler.com/messagecenter/showthread.php?t=1814) - or indeed, both! lol!

[bigH]

Judee3d well said - it ant a race - enjoy it .

We will be here today and maybe tomorrow and maybe 10 years from now .

Henry

[classylady]

Some will get up soon, some of you know what is going on with me some don't which is why I have to stepped back for a few days or so. Ron will be posting links as soon as he can get them posted to our site. In the mean time if anyone needs anything just list it more then likely they are already done. So we can be sure those are posted first.

Thanks everyone for understanding.:blowkiss:

[AnnaKirsten]

This is quite a puzzle.. Where are the specific requests I wonder??? Do people know what they want in fact, or do they get inspiration by seeing a tube and then thinking of how they could use it?

So far I've heard of people saying they want tubes, but not what tubes?

So.. If anyone wants something specific, please would you say what it is you'd like, and then we can between us see who's got it?

[classylady]

Good idea Nicky at least those can be uploaded or sent to that person right away....

So please people give us a wishlist so we can better help you all out.

[AnnaKirsten]

Just worth noting.. We can only upload 3 products in 24 hours in the Freebies section (it says a day, so I presume the clock works the same on this too)!

[AnnaKirsten]

I thought it would be interesting to look up the definitions of these terms, as all too often they can be misunderstood.

I am just giving links to the specific definitions (just in case of copyright restrictions on them being copied to here!!!!) so if you have any doubt as to the meanings, or would like to investigate them further, here we go (and of course if anyone has some other, or better links we can investigate, please do add them...

Public Domain Definition (http://www.bellevuelinux.org/publicdomain.html)

Royalty Free Definition (http://webclipart.about.com/cs/msubmenuaz/g/royalty.htm)

Rights Managed Stock -vs- Royalty Free Stock (http://www.asmp.org/commerce/royaltyfree.php)

[AnnaKirsten]

Here's another link furnished us today by Rumour..

Urban Legends of Copyright Law (http://www.animationmentor.com/newsletter/0606/feature_feature.html)

Also.. HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain)!

Dare we produce anything at all lest we have overlooked something - or the site we are hoping to use stuff from has???