Top 10 placement

[theartist]

Just a suggestion to improve the site. How about having a top ten section to see the top ten rated images on the site. A nice way to highlight the great talent that you have here.

I know you probably have a lot to do right now just getting the site up and going, but just for future reference; I'm throwing ideas here. :)

[Rumour]

I believe the topic of having a top ten section has been brought up before, along with concerns that it would turn into a 'vote for your best friend' rather than a 'vote for the best work' and thus become more of a popularity contest, as has been seen on other art community sites. I also feel that with many pictures being rated a 10, without some other way of measuring quality we'd wind up with a lot of pictures rated 10 and no way to judge which was best amonsgt them. Although you could then include the number of comments into the equation, you still run the risk of it becoming a popularity vote, which I think we would rather avoid.

However, if I might make an amendment to your suggestion, a vote on the top ten rated pictures for that week might have a better chance of success, and thus prevent a few images reaching the top levels and holding that position indefinitely, despite other artwork of equal or better quality arriving on the scene too late to gather enough votes to challenge the ratings. You might get there eventually, but it could take a long while to gather up enough votes to be in the same league.

We do also have an artist of the Month award.

[Banky615]

I'm not sure i'd agree to this being a good idea.

I have seen what ideas like this has done to other art communities and the idea of putting artists into a so called 'limelight' can often lead to unrest amongst others. When i found this site it was a breath of fresh air from all the other sites where these levels of popularity are apparent.

I think however, as an idea, a monthly competition with an independent judge might be an option. There's no real need to have prizes, just see it as a challenge to peoples creativity. Then there is more chance of varied recognition without the popularity side of things becoming an issue.

Anyways, good to see the site back and artists returning :D

[purple_angel]

I agree with both points of view. I think there's a lot of 'popularity-voting' going on, between friends, that wouldn't reflect an image's true quality... however it would also be nice to highlight some artwork, that's note-worthy. is it possible to somehow reach a reasonable compromise? maybe some form of a 'judging board', possibly made up of moderators and users as well? and perhaps it could rotate on its composition too, with different people voting at different time periods? (ie for each weekly/monthly/etc competition)?

anyway I love Inner Traveler and hope it doesn't crash again! :)

P.A.

[Engel47]

we do have the Artist of the Month "competition" for which all the moderators nominate up to 3 artists each, and then a vote is taken. It's a good way of doing it I think. :)

[redfox]

im sure we will have some poser contests again. and maybe of some other sections. depends on the amount of artists. i would like to anounce a 3dsmax contest, but i think there are not enough 3dsmaxers out there yet.

[admin]

Not sure that doesn't start to feel elitist. We try to offer special recognition by featuring individual artists monthly, and through our various challenges.
If anyone can think of other ways to distinguish special work, please let me know.

[DragonWizard]

Hello, I'm the new guy...I do have an experience with this subject that may seem unique but can illustrate the point...I was a member of one of the biggy sites...My pictures were constantly on the top 14 of a Hot 20 list...After awhile it started to annoy others so I asked (politely) that others stop voting for my work for a while...This angered some others that thought I shouldn't ask this....my pictures slackened down for about 2 months and then went right back to the same as before....I have a wife that loved to view the pictures i did everyday (three a day for months and months) and a Japanese exchange student that was arranged by my wifes father (a professor at a well known University) who also loved good artwork and she also was voting on my work on a regular basis...I asked them also to desist with voting and give others a chance....well one day what I feared happening did...someone got upset because they were number one and all of the sudden I have 5 pictures ahead of them...understandably this was seen as unfair....

Two days later I get a message from a mod that he believed I had cheated and had voted by myself because on looking he saw 3 accounts for my IP...even though I was innocent I got grilled for days with endless questions only to be told that the mod didn't believe me so he was going to tell everyone I was cheating...due to this I left a site that I loved posting at over the jeolosies of 1 or 2 people for something I had no control over....ever since that I have tried to avoid proto-competitive "recognition" themes....
I love to post my work and I love it if others like it...my main thing is how often my work gets viewed because this tells me that with all of the large ammount of excellent artwork, mine was eyecatching enough that they picked mine among the ones they thought worthy of a view....I print my work and this gives me a good idea of which ones worked and which didn't..

We all know that comments can be for many reasons...friends stroking friends, people plying you with compliments so you will come back with compliments on their work, just many reasons...so I have never judged my work by comments though the compliments can make for a quite heady experience.....

So I'll get off the soapbox now with saying that regardless of the outcome, I am one that does not want to be hot 20 , top 10 or featured artist as long as I can get along and have fun making the kind of work I want to do...

[Balzac]

It gets a bit elitest and I think it pomotes politicizing everything. Right now this place has a nice friendly vibe. I think that's one of it's most special features.

[purple_angel]

that's a sad story by DragonWizard - seems like politics is everywhere, including posting boards in art communities. i guess it shouldn't be a surprise since it's human nature.

I like one of DragonWizard's points though - looking at how many 'viewings' you get, for an image. I think that reflects on the interest peaked in the viewers and is a good indicator.

I like this place a lot (although I only know one other site, Renderosity) and will continue to post here as my 'home-art-gallery'.

P.A.

[Rumour]

hmmm, I was thinking about ways in which IT could continue to promote its friendly community atmosphere, rather than highlighting a few individuals in a top 10 or 20, when a thought popped into my head (not necessarily relating to the thought I was initially thinking).

What about having a favourite pic of your own? Each pic that gets uploaded has the option of being selected your very own favourite picture, so that when you're viewing other people's posts, there's a link to 'Rumour's favourite pic', leading to that place on IT somewhere. It wouldn't be a top 20 at all, you wouldn't be able to look at that pic and see how many people have it listed as their favourite pic, but you'd get to help promote someone else's work and other people could see what sort of art you liked. You could extend this to your favourite artist too, but at this stage it might be better just limiting it to a picture, rather than an artist, to help avoid it becoming a popularity contest.

What do you think?

[DragonWizard]

The worse part of top 20 is it makes it a competition and some of us are more competetive than others...the less competitive become left out and behind by those WANTING to WIN...Winning is not the same as sharing as a motivation for posting art....it never has been...Contests that are specific don't have this problem as everyone knows it's a contest...some have not the ability to distinguish between a sharing situation and a contest situation...The galleries should not be used as a contest as they are for sharing our love of what we do and are supposedly here for...a contest is temporary...it ends with a winner and everyone who chooses to join are aware of it being a contest...in a gallery being competitive and NOT having an end means the pressure on some to produce gets hype up till it is fever pitch, with no end, this is a volatile situation....artist (at least some I know) are creatures of mercurial temperments and once they are hurt they become blocked and upset...that would be one of the first signs of collapse when people get hurt...we're not here to feel bad but to feel good about ourselves and what we do that makes us shine.....that is the only atmosphere I can function in....one where I feel I am liked and am wanting to do things for those here...anything else is painful....I for one hope the solution you all come up with makes the distinction between Winning and sharing and no one gets hurt in the process...You can't please everyone but you can plan for a totally non- hurtful process that is as good as you can make it, both for the site and the wonderful and talented people here....and for beginners also...A begginners level for some contests is one way to guarantee that even the least proficient at least get to participate and have a chance to win in a fair and level playing field...a best of beginners art...best use of color or at least a number of different catagories for each contest...not just Mr (or Ms) greatest of the bunch catagory who wins everytime because they network better or belong to the good old boys club (or Womans club for that matter)... best to have no side plots or intrigues in a contest either eh??? Level playing field...Everyone a chance at being a winner at something....Personally though, i will try to stay away from contests myself...if I am a mod I don't want any relationship here to be one of a competitive nature...Just want to help and post my work too....share...(DragonWizard now steps down from the box....lol)

[A3DLover]

Well said,also being mod I have no desire to cause descention among mods/members and I'd like a "private mod room" where we mods can hash out the issues.
I think contests are good to point though especially for prizes :D, not titles.
But best at anything it is like you say, could be detrimental to the site and members.
But we'll see, I like the perspective you've put things in with your comments today DragonWizard.
Tod

[Engel47]

You said and I'd like a "private mod room" where we mods can hash out the issues. Well there is a "private Mods room" as you called it - it is called the Moderators Forum ;-)

[Rumour]

we're not here to feel bad but to feel good about ourselves and what we do that makes us shine.....that is the only atmosphere I can function in....one where I feel I am liked and am wanting to do things for those here...

Wow, thank you for sharing your opinion on this matter, it gives some valuable insight on the issue, as well as warning what can go wrong, something that hadn't really come to my mind.

I think the above words sum it up best, and also seem to neatly sum up why it is so many people like IT as it is and we should look at ways to reinforce and promote this. I think contests are a good way to promote activity here, so that people aren't just uploading art, making a couple of comments and then moving on. If we have contests then people will have something more to contribute to the site and want to become involved with IT. I like DragonWizard's suggestion of the contests being specifically about something rather than a compete for top spot, which means that only those people who want to participate can.

The forums are a great way to help those people wanting help, but not everyone uses them, and not everyone has great English, and so might feel a bit excluded from them. Art is a way of expression without needing words, and so is a way of communicating that everyone can understand. If they can understand enough to know we're having a 'Stunning Landscape' contest for eg, then it gives them another reason to stick around longer.

[DragonWizard]

You all have such excellent ideas...I have yet to see a bad idea or not well thought out one, I should have said, in this whole thread...yes some people don't speak all the same tongue, but I bet you anything you want to bet that we have many that speak both so that should never be a problem...

If we make it our policy to facilitate helping each other this will become the direction it goes...all of the energy is focused that way...seems this was apparent to the ones that came first to this place, as it appears to have that spirit already or I for one would find it too Heavy to function correctly in the capacity I need to and stay on my toes....friction and art for me are non compatible....stress being what it is now days, on the open market...


Foremost is to have a good time, if people coming here have a good time they will come again and stay maybe....

Contests are great as long as it has a happy feel and many chances of recognition insted of just one or 2 places more like the Academy awards with many places...the more places and catagories you have the more chances of feeling like you won...the reward of any true competition....a good time to be had by all.....the draw of feeling good...
Besides, the more winners the more people will compete, knowing they have a chance, at least...otherwise you have a promotional farce that's more a hook than level ground.....they will feel cheated, at least some of them will...

Also maybe break ALL of this into 3 separate catagories more (being beginner, intermediate, and expert skills levels...) with folks being able to compete in two catagories (those being the lowest one you pick and the one above that...experts have no one above them unless its got wings.. that's one way you can compete with those on your own skill level, and, the up the ladder and down the ladder to win is built right into it...If I'm a intermediate and High skill level competitor and don't win after a while it will become apparent that you need to lower the scope momentarily to beginner/ intermediate...

Till you begin to win too often then UP to the big time with intermediate/expert ratings and when you skill up, your competing only expert by your own persistance and learning ability...the winners of the expert level judge the winners in the catagory below them and those winners choose the beginners level winners...I think this might flatten down the plying feild and if you don't win you can't judge so this might help illiminate some of the popularity concept and make judging more of an honor..This puts a new face on it..and if you want your buddy to win more the reason to help him acquire more skill....I may be out of my mind but this sounds fair to me....

Comments??????.......(god I love this stuff)

and you're absolutely right...a mods forum, with limited access, to discuss the things that so often can be misunderstood by some that don't see the scope of the issue...a place where site business and things said are not presented outside...it makes it easier to handle those more delicate issues....like if there is a TOS violation...or "Mark Flootsen Glibber is making babies with dogs eating their heads off" and such things as what sometimes show up...ok...I have talked long enough...shut up and pass the torch...DW

[xceiverx]

I am also a new member, So far i love this site, No big issues going on. I belong to four Art groups, Two things i have noticed over my time in the other groups and this one as well. Most members here also belong to the other art groups. When this issue comes up "Voting" Its always the same people getting upset and its always the same people at the center of the issue.

I know of DragonWizard story, I belonged to that group, But i didnt know they tried saying you cheated hehe. SO i can do with it, or without it. I know there are very good artist, Me its all a hobby for me, so votings not and issue with me. It only becomes an issue to me, When the ego's begin to flair.

It only takes one bad apple to upset the cart


Peace All

[DragonWizard]

I know of DragonWizard story, I belonged to that group, But i didnt know they tried saying you cheated hehe.Peace All

When 16 of the top 20 were mine I asked people to quit voting for my pictures which started a stir amongst 1 or 2 members that thought I shouldn't have the right to ask this...When they continued and my pictures kept taking the top spots, the others that wanted a little recognition also began to complain...next thing i know, the mod there was trying to tell me that I was cheating to keep my pictures on top even though I had asked for folks to quit voting for them...Some logic, eh??? I never cheat and I never lie....I rant and rave but those are quite different issues altogether...lol....and a word to the wise...if you have a computer and more than one person at your house gets an account at a site make sure you don't post work there...they will swear up and down that you are all the same person....better yet, make them use your account if they want to see the artwork....this can cause some seriously disturbing and very inflamitory problems for you....I can attest to that...got me so angry I told them off and left...not a fun experience i can tell you....not only do they make you feel like a jerk they make you want to act like one....DW

[xceiverx]

I don't blame you for leaving, The few are always right, and the rest of us are always wrong :eyepoppin

I Just dont understand the big deal of Top20, Art comes in many faces, Trash to some, Gold to others. SO whats Art to one is not to another, The problem are the ones who only see Art one way "there way", so everything els is not.

As far as friends voting for each other, Well my friends must hate my work lol, i only made top20 once, and i know alot of people :D

With or Without the top20, Excellent Artist will still be Excellent artist!

Peace

[DragonWizard]

I wish it had been different...i liked the part where I could post art with so many people using the same program...it was a learning experience and I met a lot of people who I liked and whose art I really marveled at...I seem to feel like I am doing so much more when I show my art to people who know the program I use....anyway, I don't like having problems anywhere I post my work....I could have done without the notoriety and that's a fact...as many know, at some sites it's only a matter of knowing how to network with people to get them to come to your pictures on a regular basis...a person that networks good enough can stay on top.....not by artwork alone but the ability to make people feel good about YOU...I won't lie, I sometimes have emotional issues and that has been , at least on many occasions, my downfall as a popular artist...I now try to stay out of the spotlight as much as possible...I would rather my art speak for itself and would like to keep my personality out of it as much as I can...anyway, nice to meet you and hope you like the site here as much as I do...

[Franko]

we do have the Artist of the Month "competition" for which all the moderators nominate up to 3 artists each, and then a vote is taken. It's a good way of doing it I think. :)

I think thats a wonderful way of doing it - perhaps a few more artists of the month - and than without interviews

There is more you have to do to come in the top ten - in the most communities you have to be a very good publicity specialist to achieve the topten and so i think it is silly to think that a top ten shows the greatest artist on the top - it mostly shows the greatest publicity specilalist.

I think something in the way like the Artist of the mouth would be good to bring some Artists to the light
in the way purple_angel said - (if i understand her right).

maybe some form of a 'judging board', possibly made up of moderators and users as well? and perhaps it could rotate on its composition too, with different people voting at different time periods? (ie for each weekly/monthly/etc competition)

perhaps it is a little bit complicate but much better than a top ten of Ratings, views or comments.

[Rumour]

Franko, are you suggesting that we have several artists of the month, each one based on a different composition (for eg: Landscapes, or Poser). If so, how many are you suggesting, or would like to see?

[Franko]

I think its not important wich Program was used and what kind of picture was made - some pictures put me in an other universe - they make me standing on my head - and those Pictures should be notice by some members and than at the end of the month there is a List of some great Picts - perhaps without a ranking - sorted by the Alphabet -
I think thats the easiest way to do something like that - dont know


EDIT:
I dont know if it is possible: every member could be able to chose 2 or 3 pictures at the month to give them a voting - than a little program will count the votings and find out wich pictures are the most liked ones - do you know what i mean - i dont think so :O( also i think that it is to complicate to create such a program

[Diane]

I'm new here, but have the ability to see what a grate place it is and what the future can bring to all of us here, just the fact that this matter have an open discussion speak for it self.

Now my English isn't that good and it take me lot of time to write in English, so I don't like to write to much in English, but I think I can contribute to this, from my experience in other sites as this one.

I know as a fact that top list is good for traffic, there for this is good for the owners of this site, this can be another way for us the artists to helping back to the owner/s of this site.

The problems of this thing all ready mentioned here and I have nothing to add about this, what I can add is my solution to the main problem of credibility of top list.

1. make sure there is credible system that can "see" if person is voting more than one time. For that I think you can ask for credit card info (no money or just symbolic amount like 1 $ for cover the cost of credit card processing) using real secure system to do it ( and keep this C.C. info out side of the internet ... ) like that you can eliminate the problem of more than one vote for each person from the same IP ...

2. have only one vote "like it" and a place for write why you like it, this eliminate the problem of nasty voting for take down art works.

3. make link to list of all the art works or the top 100 listed by the number of votes , as you don't have actual number in the vote what count is how many votes "I like it" art work got. this eliminate the problem of different standards, and any way most of the visitors give 10 or don't give nothing...

4. take out works that didn't got any vote over certain time, say like 30 days or 45 days or more. this will refresh the list as art works that where on the top for long time and people are tired of looking at them will not get votes, and then go out from the list.

well that's about it If I'll thing of something else I'll let you know :)

I am not sure if you can do all that and if all the members will like this but this is the way I think will be fair to all and can be trusted. and can help this site grow.

Any way I would like to take this opportunity and say big thank you to all of you here.

Diane Tremblay
http://DianeArt.com


:w00t: :w00t:

[DragonWizard]

Dianne...I for one would not be willing to give out my credit card info just to vote...Also if you make it manditory for voters to give CC info then those without cards don't get to vote....

It's easy to put in coding in the voting html or whatever coding that will illiminate people even being able to vote more than once...if you tried to vote more than once you would then get a message telling you that you had already voted...You get pretty much the same thing when you try to upload more than 2 pictures in a 24 hour period...

Also I kind of like the idea of the artist being interviewed...you get to find out more about the artist than what their art looks like...a little bit of background...

I like your art Franko, but I would also like to KNOW who you ARE...where you're from, what made you start d oing artwork...what brought you to this site and why did you stay...all of that is important, to me at least...Like RedBeard...to me his picture is striking with the beard and all and I love his artwork...I would be interested in finding out his "story"...as I would with many of you...I think it makes it more of a personal experience and I for one think that it would draw us closer together as a community...almost like having a neighbor that you have taken the time to get to know...just my opinion, but so many of you seem like folks I would like to know better....like you for instance Franko...you seem pretty kool to me...

Also if you get too many people being artists of the month, it seems to me that it begins to lose meaning...one of the reasons I like this forum, though, is that it allows everyone to put in ideas...a lot of this stuff are ideas I had not thought about...you have some very bright people here and some of the ideas you all come up with are abslutely brilliant...

That's just my 2 cents worth so write on Brothers and Sisters because I am learning more as we go.............the Olde bearded DragonWizard

[Rumour]

@ Franko: Not sure how easy it is to create the program you've suggested, but you could try emailing admin and suggesting it to him, he will be able to tell you how easy it is.

As an alternative however, I suggested a couple of posts back that everyone could have a link to their own favourite image/sound/text on IT. Say under a person's avatar you could have a link to 'Rumour's favourite pic' and that would be one way for someone to promote another person's work on IT. Each picture in the galleries could have the option 'Make this item your favourite picture', where you click on it and it will automatically link you back to that picture. If you wanted to promote more than one, you could include them in your signature line.

Also, when you go to a picture to comment, there are often 3-4 pictures below it of other artwork; sometimes by the same artist, often by others. I'm not sure by what process the selection is made, perhaps we could ask that these be the most viewed or most commented on pictures for that day?


Regardless of whether or not we have a top 10/20 of the month, I think we should at least consider a few other 'Artists' of the month for different categories. Specifically:

~Music/sound
~Stories/Poems/Prose
~Animation/Video

These are categories that can't be judged (easily) by the same standards one judges artwork.

[Diane]

Dianne...I for one would not be willing to give out my credit card info just to vote...Also if you make it manditory for voters to give CC info then those without cards don't get to vote....

It's easy to put in coding in the voting html or whatever coding that will illiminate people even being able to vote more than once...if you tried to vote more than once you would then get a message telling you that you had already voted...You get pretty much the same thing when you try to upload more than 2 pictures in a 24 hour period...
DragonWizard

Most of adults have some kind of C.C. that's a fact of life this days.
The problem that often come up is how you can be sure you don't have visitors that signup in this place with more than one name with different IP's, it easy to simply do it from works,Internet cafe, friends etc.. so in theory one person can if he really want, get in with way more than 1 vote power. I thing the only way to eliminate it, is by asking personal info and verify it via C.C,. the security can be done by using secure transmitting info and save the C.C. info out side the site server.

I read at your post that you had problems with this exact issue. imagine if you had some kind of C.C. verification system this problem would never come up...

another good point with this way is that if the owner of this site want to band person that make problems in this site they can easily put him out for ever...
and its also element that will keep members from make problems from the beginning because they know that they can be band from the site for ever...

Diane Tremblay
http://DianeArt.com

[Rumour]

1. How hard is it to own more than one credit card? I only have one, but there could be many who have several.

2. Most adults might have a credit card, how many 14-16/18 year olds will? Are we then saying you can't place artworks here if you don't have a creditcard, or just that you can't vote?

3. I wouldn't vote if I have to give personal info like that away, I'd much rather tell you how much I weighed, my middle name or post up a cruel pic my parents took of me sitting on the potty when I was 2 or 3. Credit card info should only be used to purchase items, not as a means of verification, else we open IT up to a scammer who fakes an address to look like it's coming from the IT admin people and asks for your credit card to verify a vote on IT. They then go out an purchase a $1000 stereo with it.


If it's getting to the stage where people are really worried about people voting more than once on any top ten vote to the point where extreme measures are suggested to ensure voting is fair, then perhaps we should stop and reconsider what we want the top ten pics to represent. There are always ways to cheat the system if someone really wants to do it, and it's near impossible to cover every angle. A selection of 10-20 pics worth checking out for this week/month might be a better way to do it, and not have any ranking system in place for those pics at all. I like Diane's suggestion of this selection being refreshed regularly, so that people can see other people's art and not just the same few all the time.

[DragonWizard]

Then I guess I don't get to vote then because I don't have a credit card....if it is getting to the point where it becomes SO important that you make it difficult altogether just for the sake of making sure you don't get cheated out of being the winner then I for one wouldn't want to participate anyway...and Dianne, the problem would never have come up because I would not have been able to post or anything....this is already beginning to sound fairly elitist so if anyone was counting on my vote you just lost it with this form of voting...so have fun, you all...besides, I can get tons of people to vote for me by just advertising at all the sites I participate at...as Rumour said...if a person wants to cheat, all of these answers are easily circumvented...I may KNOW that some people cheat but I won't participate in something where my biggest worry is getting cheated out of winning...it's just not that important to me....Like I have said before, I post to share my work, not pat myself on the head for being a "winner"...

[Lemniscate]

I don't know where the IT server is located, but if it is in the states, the idea of having a database of credit card information is descending into very murky legal waters, whether or not it's stored offline. I work for a credit card processor and, despite tight security, including passkeys that have to be scanned in order to so much as get the door open, we're not allowed to keep cardholder data on site save for certain, brief periods of time. Even the processing servers that are located in an even more secure location have to be wiped occasionally.

I'm not aware of the specifics of services like PayPal, in regards to whether a registered merchant can see the credit card data of their patrons or not, but I think you'd have to purchase something in order to make it into the database to begin with. If anyone knows, I'd be interested in hearing.

Either way, I'm with the camp that wouldn't give up CC information just to vote. I agree that if someone wants to cheat, they will find a way to do so.

[Diane]

1. How hard is it to own more than one credit card? I only have one, but there could be many who have several.

2. Most adults might have a credit card, how many 14-16/18 year olds will? Are we then saying you can't place artworks here if you don't have a creditcard, or just that you can't vote?

3. I wouldn't vote if I have to give personal info like that away, I'd much rather tell you how much I weighed, my middle name or post up a cruel pic my parents took of me sitting on the potty when I was 2 or 3. Credit card info should only be used to purchase items, not as a means of verification, else we open IT up to a scammer who fakes an address to look like it's coming from the IT admin people and asks for your credit card to verify a vote on IT. They then go out an purchase a $1000 stereo with it.


1. it's hard to own more than one C.C. not on your name... and when you combine it with the personal I.P. of your internet connection it's really hard thing to do, unless you have such good friends that will take their C.C. and getting to this system from different computers just for vote for you...

2. Young's can have C.C. or can use their parents one if they really want to post here, parents can take this in good way I think, if its just for verification. it's also good for parents to know that the owner of the site know exactly who is in contact with their kids...

3. You only have to do it one time when you getting to the site for open account as a member , no one will ever need to ask you for any C.C. after that, now we all have membership here with out this , but if we all know that this is the way it's have to be, than we will do it just for ones.

I know that people have some kind of internal fear from giving their info on the internet , but this is exactly the problem here the anonymity, it can bring scams and scum, with carefully and smart way of doing this, the owner of this site can explain why they do it and how they do it and can convince any one that this way is the most secure and fair way to have voting system that will work, and this is for the security of all the members here.

Now I start all that because I know what kind of problems simple voting system can bring, for that it better to do it correctly from the beginning or not do it at all...
Personally I don't care not to have it at all , it just that I see it from the owner side. I think they would like to have it, as it will bring more traffic to the site , more traffic can transmit to money with advertisement system, this will bring more money to the owner that hopefully will not need to ask us to pay for his service one day...

My best regards to all of you.
Diane Tremblay
http://DianeArt.com

[DragonWizard]

Well actually once you have one credit card it is even easier to get another...and how many teenagers have parents that are going to put their credit card on the line just to allow their child to post on a website...I totally disagree with this approach but I am just one person so let's see what the others think, shall we....How many people think you should have to have a credit card to participate here at IT???

By the way, it was not the fact I didn't have a credit card that caused the problem...it was people that so wanted to win they thought a person had to be a cheater to "beat" their picture...The attitude that people by nature are cheaters and have to be monitored to "Prove" their honesty...I find the idea of having to prove my honesty just to participate somewhat repugnant....so lets put it to a poll somewhere and find out if most of us think this is a good idea or one that is not friendly or community oriented....anyone else have anything to say???

So far I haven't found anything anonymous about people here nor do I see any scams...if there is, please point it out to a mod or admin to be dealt with...thank you for your thoughts....

[Hyperborea]

Maybe it would be a good idea that InnerTraveler is site that has NO ranking at all?

Personally I hate the stuff because it seldom says something about the quality of the work and is always one form or another of popularity display!

Look at the ranking possibility right now! Most people vote 10 points or not at all (me). So one could safely say it has no meaning what so ever.

Innertraveler should make every effort to stand out between all the other sites who have more or less the same content. I think we are on the right track with the Animation - Poem/writing and Music galleries. What I try to say is " let's make a difference "!

I like the idea of Rumour about different AOM in several galleries and the suggestion of DragonWizard to have more artist info! It's a community so lets communicate as much as possible. A good start would be the re-installment of the bio pages as they were before The Big Bang and at the same time encourage people to write something on them!


*Willem steps down of homemade soapbox*

[EyeSpy]

Maybe it would be a good idea that InnerTraveler is site that has NO ranking at all?
...
Innertraveler should make every effort to stand out between all the other sites who have more or less the same content.
...
*Willem steps down of homemade soapbox*


Bravo, Willem! Back up onto that soapbox! I couldn't agree with you more. You are spot on with this. Good job!

[Engel47]

Most of adults have some kind of C.C. that's a fact of life this days.

Not so! I have managed to get (almost) to my half century just fine without a credit card and really don't forsee any reason to get one! In my family "credit" was an ugly word, and as my mother always said "Pay cash or don't have it!".

[Diane]

The way I see it here, you don't like the idea of top list, and I don't really care about that , what I do care is how we can help this site to develop and be able to support him self with out we will have to start to pay for it service, only for that I think that top list is good, but we can do more for help this site,

for example: we can put link back to this site from our sites in good spot, I did it all ready and waiting for the banner to be choused for proudly put it in my site, another way to have link to this site is by linking it to your personal gallery as critic links to your art works.

We can also promote this site by show it to our artists friends and ask them to join in.

If any one have more ideas please let us all know..

and again thank you all for be here.

Diane Tremblay
http://DianeArt.com

[Liewald]

Personally I hate the competetive aspect of other sites. It destroys the communityand the art as people end up doing art to formula to get points. One of the things I really like about traveller is the openness and true appreciation of other peoples work based on the pics rather than politics and alliances. I do feel however that some way of chatting and making referals so if someone sees an exceptional pic that others may miss would be help. unfortunately i dont think the community is mature enough yet for this to happen using messaging yet but maybe some sort of HOT image tag that anyone could set (anonymously) that flags images but doesn't rank them may be a way but who knows ????

:juggle: :juggle:

[rokko spider]

ehm ehm...

I'm quite on these forums and my english is not so good...

to my opinion the vote option 1-10 is really useless, as any other kind of "audience vote" on the web

second, spotting one or more "artists" every month or is certainly motivating... interviews are good as well, I think, no one is obliged to read them unless it is really interested... the choice of the artist should be a matter of the site's administrators (or their fiduciary experts, OK?), not a matter of a popular vote. the problem I have seen to occur in several sites of "art" through the web is when adminstrators start to delegate their responsabilities to a "popular vote". art is not democracy. no artist is ready to be rejected by a democratic vote. so, adm's take your responsability on your shoulders, OK?

anyway the site is fine, I like it
ciao
rokko

PS the only problem I have is the new 750 Kb limit in upload, so I cannot upload new images anymore...

[Engel47]

interviews are good as well, I think, no one is obliged to read them unless it is really interested... the choice of the artist should be a matter of the site's administrators (or their fiduciary experts, OK?), not a matter of a popular vote. so, adm's take your responsability on your shoulders, OK?



For this site the Moderators take the full responsibility for the Artist of the Month - we select the artists from the gallery that we think are producing works that are noteworthy, and we nominate those artists, from the list of artists that have been so nominated we then take a vote, and once a winner is chosen we inform Admin who then arranges the interviews. So we do shoulder our responsibilities quite well in this respect, was there a reason that you think that we don't?

As for the 1 - 10 ranking I agree, most people give a 10, perhaps it needs be a ranking of excellent, good, needs more work, etc etc?

[rokko spider]

I meant it's OK so

[avalonfaayre]

Please don't ruin a good thing. If it's working, why change it? I prefer inspiration to competition.

[Rumour]

Hopefully there'll be a lot of inspiration in the friendly contests we run in the forums, but I think that even if you decide you don't want to enter into the competition, there's no harm in using the themes to inspire yourself. There was an animation contest in a group with the theme 'Keep off the Grass...' that I'd have liked to have entered but didn't have the time. I'm still going to try and do the animation though... some day....... :work:

[Engel47]

How about the Admins and Mods make a selection once a week of their favourite pics over the following week and post links in the forum? That way you may just get to see excellent artwork that you may have otherwise missed? Up to 10 images.